Bigs and retention revisted August 21, 2007
Posted by Oats in Fraternal Families, Kappa Kappa Psi, Membership Education, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
Hi everyone!
first off – glad to be here, long time reader, first time poster…uh. umm…hmm, that doesn’t seem right.
second – holy cow! it takes me like 4 days to catch up, so bear with me.
The speed at which our bloggidy blog is moving is almost downright torrential and I find it hard to find time to comment – so I’d like to revisit the bigs and retention discussion that may have passed by.
Following Euclid and Jennai here…(and I promise this’ll be a quick post – and might touch points that have been mentioned that I just haven’t caught up with yet).
I’m having a hard time with the idea of the responsibility for retention resting on the VP and the President’s shoulders. I mean, I’m not a firm believer in the mentality that the chapter is as strong as it’s executive leadership. In some instances and chapters, that may be the case, but I’ve never been a part of that.
Retention really, in my opinion, relies on a few aspects: Membership (quality), education (pre- and post), and I suppose an argument could be made in the realm of executive branch.
Membership: It’s pretty simple really – you get those that really soak in the brotherhood, what it means to serve, enjoy themselves, wear their letters with pride. And you get those (as I believe it was mentioned) “pin and runners.” The one’s that put effort into the brotherhood are usually the ones that stick around. The brother’s that half-ass it through everything, will probably find something better (be it schoolwork, sports, significant other) to take their time away from the chapter. I won’t even talk about those that barely make it into the education process…The point I’m trying to make is, you find people that want to be there and part of the group (not just a part of something) and the retention will happen…it doesn’t mean though, you don’t have to do anything – which leads me to
education: Your pre-membership and post-membership education programs, (and I’m going to lump this in there as well) along with your rituals MUST be not only informative (duh) but interactive, fun, and most of all, I believe, (re)affirming. I don’t want to spend a great amount of time on it, but these ideals we’re taught and have been taught and are being taught over and over and over again are the reasons we decided to join, one of the reasons we decided to stay, and one of the reasons we’re still talking about it today.
Now, if you’re President and your VP are responsible for the membership and education (yes, most VP’s from what I can remember are), then okay, maybe it is imperative you have strong brothers in place. But if it is your chapters responsibility, then maybe a brother’s decision to stay is decided by what the chapter as a whole does.
Speaking from a personal note here: in my years of involvement with my chapter, I don’t think we always had the strongest brother leading. Sometimes, and more often than not, our strongest brothers were not officers – but they did participate. I think we were able to recognize, in some ways, what would be best for our chapter in the sense that, in some years, the face in office was better than the person in office.
shifting gears…(boy i hope all that made some kind of sense)
bigs/littles/family trees…
As long as you’re doing it, and as long as it works for your chapter – continue whichever method is being used. Arguements can be made for revealing early, arguements can be made for later – personally, i’m a fan of right after 2nd degree…for no other reason than that’s when I was told and that’s when I told my little’s…well, I didn’t tell them, but they found out then.
i go for now – I’ll return to the cupboard for now and try to catch up…
It’s OK When I’m Gone August 21, 2007
Posted by balcoholic in Alumni Affairs, Chapter Issues, Kappa Kappa Psi, List of Reasons, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
I understand what you are saying Jennai Ell and I have to say that really it doesn’t bother me that my chapter changed after I left. Maybe it’s because I haven’t been back to see them but once for a very brief visit and have distanced myself (for other reasons that I’m sure eventually we’ll go into here but not now). Or maybe it’s because I was feeling the drift while I was there and felt it was no longer a part of me before I left. I don’t know.
What I was trying to get at was the rift that was put in my active chapter when we got a group of newbies. We got a group of new members and those members had a different take on things that changed the way we were while we were active. This caused at least 2 members (that I can remember) to go inactive, a few actives to go conditional and a few more to completely disengage in the chapter only coming to meetings to keep their active status until they graduate so they could be considered “alumni.”
Maybe my question is more like: how do we get the experienced actives to understand and be open to change and how can we get the new actives to understand and be open to what exists so as to not cause rifts in the chapter?
Ooof… that’s a tough one.
Here’s one for the why join KKPsi list:
To meet people from other places (and at your own school) that are as passionate as you are for band.
Lots of Reasons to be a Brother August 21, 2007
Posted by Pepper in Kappa Kappa Psi, List of Reasons, Recruitment, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
Not to change the subject but I’d like to add in a little side conversation here. I want to make a list of X reasons to join K K Psi – as many as possible. Not necessarily serious reasons but I hope not all silly ones. Maybe it would be more like reasons to join and/or stay in K K Psi. If we all post a few reasons ever now and then we can collect them all and maybe put them in one big list on this site, and also maybe give them to chapters who are recruiting.
Heres some to start:
- Have a family away from home
- Help band opportunities survive for the future
- Inside jokes that people in other states get but no one you know can explain
- Travel across the country
- Always have a place to stay on road trips
- Learn how to be a better leader
- Pie in the face
We don’t have to change subjects or anything, maybe just add a few reasons at the end of your post or whatever.Thanks!
How do I love thee forever? August 20, 2007
Posted by balcoholic in Kappa Kappa Psi, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
I have a specfic retention example that I still to this day have no answer for. It was actually not only a retention issue for KKPsi but also for marching band at my school. In both band and KKPsi we had some new members that came in that had a different view on band and the fraternity. And when I say a different view, I don’t necessarily mean bad or good… just different from the norm of the orgainization as it stood before they got there. These members were also quite vocal in their views and tended to sway the organization in their direction (away from the direction it was going in previously). There were several soft or medium spoken people that didn’t appreciate where these members were taking the organization and ended up quiting the organization because of it.
Maybe the problem was the organization and these people were changing in opposite directions. OR, maybe the problem was the people were looking for an excuse to get out.
But I wonder, how do you keep the part of the original luster in the organization that made YOU join and still let the chapter grow with it’s new members?
Plan and Pay Attention August 18, 2007
Posted by Euclid's Dog in Brotherhood, Fraternal Families, Kappa Kappa Psi, Recruitment, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
Hello hornstothebox.
How can a VP motivate and help the chapter to do a better job of recruiting and retaining members?
In my mind, recruitment/retention problems only really spring up when the President and Vice President just kind of stumble through the year. If they have a plan and are actively thinking about such things, they rarely become a problem. I don’t know if that’s because the plans are good or if, because they’re thinking about it, they notice the small stuff before it festers. I’ve also found that people, including chapters, can be motivated simply by telling them what you want them to do, why, and periodically telling them that they did a good job.
I would imagine that for most chapters recruitment starts at band camp. So, if I were VP, I’d have a pre-band camp meeting where we decided what to wear each day, developed ideas for posters or other recruitment paperwork, and tried to generate good ideas from the rest of the chapter. Once band camp started I’d meet with the chapter for 5 minutes after camp each day. I’d ask for names of people they thought would be good brothers. I’d remind them what we were wearing tomorrow, and I’d tell them they did a really good job today and to keep up the good work.
During rush I’d try to create events that the chapter already likes to do. Your chapter like BBQ’s, then hold a rush BBQ. If the actives want to be there they will be (and they’ll be happy about it). After each event, meet with the actives, make sure that you’re inviting the people you’re after, ask if new people should be added to the list, and tell them it went well.
Retention. Retention is hard for a VP to orchestrate. In fact, beyond that first prospective year, I’d say retention was more of a President’s job. If the President keeps meetings moving along and schedules enough fun chapter activities most won’t want to quit (if they leave school or have time commitment problems there’s not much YOU can do about that).
Retention for prospectives involves making them feel wanted. If your education meetings aren’t during chapter meetings, have actives show up (even if they’re not doing anything). Have their big brothers send them a note a week (or maybe a small gift, like a candy bar). Reveal big brothers early! Seriously a big brother, family traditions, etc… can go a long way towards making a prospective feel like they’re part of the chapter. Make sure prospectives feel like they’re accomplishing something. Have them organize and implement a class service project, fundraiser, social event, etc…
To sum up, the VP should have a plan for recruitment and everyone should know what that plan is. The actives should feel as if they have a role to play in forming that plan as well as implementation and they should be thanked for their efforts frequently. For prospective retention, do whatever you can to make prospectives feel like they’re part of the chapter. For active retention, do whatever you can to make sure the chapter is an enjoyable group to be part of.
Greetings August 18, 2007
Posted by hornstothebox in Kappa Kappa Psi, Recruitment, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
Hello everyone! Let me get my artesian water, and say hi. I have been thinking about how to respond to this most recent issue, but am realizing that my brain is turning to mush, and coherent thoughts will not be forthcoming at this time. I guess I will try anyway.
How can a VP motivate and help the chapter to do a better job of recruiting and retaining members?
My main thought is that motivation would seem to be a non-issue in my chapter experience when it comes to getting active members involved in recruitment. To some extent, I think recruiting is an inherently pleasant task for actives. If an active is not eager to be involved in recruiting, I would guess that the he or she has more motivation issues than recuiting.
Also, if chapter members are apathetic about retaining members, then I think there is a deeper issue with the bond within the chapter. A chapter with a strong bond will naturally be motivated to retain members. If there a deeper issue with the bond, then improving that bond becomes a priority, which I think starts to all fall outside of the role of VP.
I guess my view is that the VP should not have a situation where he or she needs to motivate the chapter in recruiting and retaining members. Of course, as I just wrote that, I realized how silly that sounds, so perhaps I am a little off the mark… Does anyone have an specific instance of recruiting/retention apathy? That would help me.
Attrition August 17, 2007
Posted by Turf Herder in Kappa Kappa Psi, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
Attrition is definitely a factor in our local chapter. Two or three classes ago, they recruited nine people. Two dropped out after Second. Of the seven that went through Third, only four returned the next fall; two dropped out mid-year, and one went alumni at the end of the year. Today, only one is still active. Generally, if this chapter recruits twenty people, it can count on losing five before Third. I don’t know how standard that is… maybe it’s just the usual rate of loss? Or maybe it’s poor recruitment… or more importantly, poor efforts on the part of the chapter to incorporate the prospectives into the Family.
I like the new avatar, Balcoholic. :)
BTW – I added a “retention & attrition” category so that we can categorize this conversation. It didn’t seem to fit entirely into recruitment, because I think this is a MEP issue as well as a post-initiation issue…
Earlier, I think I asked how a VP could do a better job of recruiting and retaining members. Now, after reading all of these posts, I wonder if a better question might be how can a VP motivate and help the chapter to do a better job of recruiting and retaining members?
losing prospectives August 17, 2007
Posted by Jennai Ell in Kappa Kappa Psi, Membership Education, Recruitment, Retention & Attrition.add a comment
I think we’ll all figure out the identities eventually…I’m fairly certain I know who Euclid’s Dog is (and Turf Herder, of course)
As for losing prospectives…no chapter ever loses *many* that I’ve heard about, and I can’t say that the chapters ask for much “official” explanation for their leaving. When they do have to bow out, it sounds like it’s usually for time commitment things – classloads are too heavy, they have to do things for scholarships, churches, parents get sick, etc. Some decide that the fraternity wasn’t something that they were really serious about (which is better than them figuring it out after initiation), sometimes they run into a money crunch. A few (for the chapters that either voted twice on prospectives (once when they became a prospective and again before they were initiated) or voted upon only before 3rd) would fail the final vote.
I think of all the stories I’ve heard from around the country, I’ve only heard of a couple prospectives who decided that the fraternity wasn’t all it was cracked up to be, and stepped away from the program, DURING the program. It’s bad when it happens, and usually related to something not involving actual education.
Then there are the “pin n runs” as someone once called them. Those who’d be initiated and then fall off the face of the planet. Most of these are sad, but don’t come back to bite a chapter in the ass. However, there was a horror story about a brother who was initiated, and then immediately started telling people that which they’d learned in third degree.
Although, I knew a brother from another district who figured out most of TBSigma’s secrets just from paying attention, so it’s not impossible that it wouldn’t happen the other way around.
A Knife Indeed… August 17, 2007
Posted by balcoholic in Kappa Kappa Psi, Recruitment, Retention & Attrition.1 comment so far
Ah yes… a knife there was. And it gave me a really sick feeling in wondering why we had finally (after a LONG meeting) decided to let him in. But I have to agree with Euclid’s Dog in saying that I think he was a success story. I think he was one of the cases where the chapter was good for him as well as he being good for the chapter.
I also like Euclid’s Dog’s idea of re-interviewing. It would have helped my guilt as an active definitely. But yes, you have to be VERY careful not to let it guilt you into letting them in.
To return back to other questions from the beggining, I don’t remember loosing many durning the period of being initiated. Did any of you ask what the reasons for leaving were? What were they? I think we lost one or two due to time committments but I only remember loosing people a year or two AFTER they were initiated… mainly due to the chapter going in a direction that they didn’t like (which is a WHOLE other can of worms).
Euclid’s Dog – Hello, hello!!! I was wondering if my story would give me away. :) Now I’m going to be wondering about you.
